PSP Rhythm ~ View topic

Rhythm fanatic Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 590

you may have a look at this:

pix:
http://www.qgamo.com/games/traxxpad/screens.asp
info:
http://www.qgamo.com/games/traxxpad/factsheet.asp
video trailer:
http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/worthplaying/traxxpad/Traxxpad_Demo_Trailer.zip

"..for the first time ever"
we should have a few words on that Very Happy

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

Whoa! another music program in the mix! I heard of beaterator and played with the demo but this is a new one. It's got some pretty cool features but I wonder if there is a mode to not enter notes in real time (it still is an interesting feature). I didn't see anything about effects or filters which would have been cool.

yeah, first audio software it not true, I think they come it at number 5!

PSP Kick 7-2005
PSP Rhythm 9-2005
PSP Seq 10-2006
Beaterator (not released)
traxxpad 7-2007

-Louie

user Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 30

Maybe you should throw in some of those crazy acronyms like R.TIST Rolling Eyes

Perhaps you could work on a Technology Incorporating Triggered Samples and some Automatically Sequenced Sounds??

Rhythm fanatic Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 590

most of traxxpad's features would better fit into PSP Simplar, which is our live-act concept Smile

do you remember? I cant find it in the forum Sad

search doesnt work..

Site Admin Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 305

AHAHAHHAH!!!! MaxTakeoff you're a RIOT!!!

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

T.I.T.S and A.S.S

Smile

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

IDEAS RELATED TO SAMPLER Smile

Have you guyes seen the sampler part of Renoise? It is little like the one in Protracker, with loop function (forward and pingpong) with adjustable in- and out-marks. With a "cut note" command in the works it would be nice to have some kind of loop function too. Besides, with a loop function one would be able to use really small chipsamples as long synths.

In Renoise you also have an envelope-editor, where you can set length, fading, panning, etc. for each sample. I guess these things are not easily implemented but if you are planning to include a sampler, it could maybe be an inspiration?

EDIT: I just watched the trailer, it lokks like Traxxpad can hear the notes without the sequence running. Believe me, it IS a pretty function Smile

user Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 30

Well Hai, I hope you get the joke now but thanks for suggesting that I am a 'dickhead in lack of artificial vision' (I'm assuming you meant artistic).

You can set the attack, decay, length and panning of each sample in PSP Rhythm, you can also vary it on each step using Custom mode. Isn't that editing the envelope?

Some more functionality for playing the loops might be alright but I personally haven't reached the point where I have run out of patterns yet.

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

Sorry MaxTakeOff, I don´t´assume you´re a dickhead, also I did not understand it was a joke I simply got scared by the suggestion which sounds like something that would result in less controll for dedicated composers, and increase attractiveness to desperate aging porn stars wanting to become the next pop-queen.

I have alot of ideas myself, those does not make a good or a bad artist. I know nothing of your artistic buisness and for all I know I might dig your stuff more than anything else. However, that does not conflict with my thoughts regarding a automated composing system.

Yeah and sorry for my poor english, I learned it from norwegian television and teachers speaking even worse than myself Smile

user Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 30

No worries Hai. I wouldn't want to put you off sharing your ideas. Your English is very good, it's not hard to understand what you're saying.

I wouldn't want to promote some dodgy automation thing either - that was the best thing I could think of to fit the acronym Smile

Cheers, Stu

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

Hai, just to coment on the loop functionality, if you set your sample to Synth mode the sample will be looped like an oscillator and you can get some pretty crazy sounds out of it. You should try it!

-Louie

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

Alright, that is supercool!

Rhythm fanatic Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 590

gee guys..
I just tried out this piece of PSP game..
and well.. it's kinda commercial crap..

mainly you can produce light rap music..
mostly you've got 4 channels, sometimes 8, by switching the 4 to another 4 Very Happy

not much difference between modes, just fancy 3D transformation between them..
you can record somehow.. Very Happy

you can load your own samples but not from custom folders..

playback starts with Select button, and you select mode with the Start button.. insane??!! Very Happy

this stuff is pretty limited..
only GFX is better than rhythm's, but I don't think my music will sound better by a turning inside-out sampler, nor by a brakedancing robot..

oh my.. really disappointing.. :S
actually the main stuff of Traxxpad could be coded in lua, less than a few hours.. sounds assigned to buttons, presses recorded into a grid.. just the 3D stuff would take longer..
my Simplar™ project will own this stuff sooo badly.. once it becomes reality Very Happy

Rhythm fanatic Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 590

ookay.. after the blazing flames here come some infos:

you've got 4 modes:
MELOD™
R.T.I.S.T.™
S.T.A.C.™
and MYXXER™

in MELO®D, you can make tunes with a selected voice in real time recording..
you've got the X,O,[] and /\ buttons and can use left-right to move on the piano, can change octaves with the triggers..

then you can create sequences with the tune and other made tunes or one shots in R.T.I.S.T.W.T.F.
there you'll have 4 channels, those you can mix in real time and you can switch to another 4 channels even during recording..

the notes are allways on the X,O,[] and /\ buttons..
with left-right you can toggle some parameters like pitch, track vol, track bal, clear track, swing, note bal, note vol, BPM
with the analog stick you can move in the grid..

now you've got the sequences, you can mix 4 of them together in a grid with S.T.U.C.K.

in MILFFXXXER, you'll be able to do the same as in R.T.I.S.T.W.T.F. but without recoding, and as I saw not with tunes but only one shots, kinda pointless, but fun for kids 3+ Very Happy

you've got some handy apps like recorder (to record from headset or USB microphone), combiner (to combine more sounds into one) or the chop shop (that will trim, gain, reverse, normalise, fade-in-out a sample for you)

so, now you have some ideas, how it's working, but my opinion is
if Rhythm is free, they should have payed for me trying out TRAXXPAD Razz

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

I haven't played Traxxpad yet but I did get a chance to look at the manual. The programming looked very clunky. With 4 and 4 sounds per track. I can't tell but it may render out your tracks when you go into the song sequencer. From what I can tell the song sequencer just puts down tracks when you press buttons (like their pattern mode) and there is no real way to program a complex song except turning tracks on and off.

You could emulate much of what it does in Rhythm by rendering out patterns to the Export folder and loading them into a pattern. But then you would have 15 patters to play with and much greater control.

The graphics are pretty cool. I think they must have dumbed down the sequencer and added flashy graphics to market to a broader audience.

Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 9

I got this game and heres what i have to say about it.

There are a few things better in this game than PSPRhythm, but psprhythm is a lot better.

The quality of the music is a little better in Traxxpad, but not that much better.
Also you can record your own samples, which is a big plus, if PSPRhythm had this feature, I would be insanely excited.

Overall, PSPRhythm is a lot easier to use, and you can program the songs a lot more in PSPRhythm.

So if you're thinking about buying this game : Don't waste the money when instead you can use something for free that's better than it.

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

Thanks for the comments. I think I'll try to work on audio input a little bit. No promises but it would be helpful. I don't like running in Kernel mode and that might require it.

I do know that the next version 8 will be even easier to program! Less combo keys and more intuitive.

-Louie

Rhythm fanatic Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 590

I gonna get a PSP camera this week for 50$, dunno if I'll buy Talkman Euro with microphone also, but for 25$ it's pretty cheap, but the camera also has mic..

so, as soon as I try them out where they record audio, and in what format (probably MUSIC folder and WAV), all you need to do is code an option in Rhythm to be able to load from ms0:/PSP/MUSIC/..
that wouldn't require kernel mode I think..
and we could go with doing the sampling first, then launching Rhythm..

but of course in PSPRhythm10 all this will be solved, since, you'll be able to connect to any workstation, and also will be able to use real time effects on audio input.. right Louie?! Wink

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

AFTER LITTLE PLAY AROUND WITH TRAXXPAD:

The interface is pretty close to nightmare, at least I managed to turn off some of the animations which consumes composing time (and battery life?) and stuck up your flow. I liked that the editor window was moving from left to right (that method could maybe be used if you decide to extend PSP Rhythm with more steps:))

Loading samples is little pain the ass, also customizing instrument sets. Once you have loaded a sample the program automatically goes back to patterneditor, and it takes many button pushes (plus combinations) to get back to where the samples are located.

Also it is hard (for an oldschooler like myself) trying to identify with that ultra trendy atmosphere in the prgram. The whole application starts off with one of the cheapest hip-hop riff of all time, and I realize while using Traxxpad that it is this kind of music (standarized hip-hop) it is created for.

No disrespect for the genre, like any other genre I find most artist to be crap and some to be great, in the case of hip-hop there are MANY artists nowadays and, of course this results in much not-very-groundbreaking music.

Anyway, I will try to complete a song with it to see what´s beyond the first impression. If anyone knows how to customize number of steps and if it is possible, please let me know!

Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 5

I wanted to introduce myself. I've just recently got into electronic music and production. I've put in a fair bit of time with traxxpad and have just started to look into rhythm a bit. I must say that there are some good sides to traxxpad. This definitely isn't to say rhythm isn't as good or anything like that, just that traxxpad does quite a bit once you play around with it. At first the interface can feel limiting, especially if you're used to something else, but as much as the animations and large buttons take up a fair bit of real estate, it's still easy to see what's going on onscreen, switch between different options, and get something put together. The one part that actually takes a bit of time is digging into the samples. Normally, sounds are divided into banks of 8 sounds under different categories. Some are by major producers who have contributed to the project and others are by genre. For instance, there's a reggae bank with several steel drums, appropriate sounding bass drums, etc. Unfortunately, you can't just immediately dig through the samples library without going to "edit bank" and then selecting a bank to edit. This does, however, allow you to pick whatever instruments and sounds you'd like and completely create a bank from scratch. On top of that, you don't have to use all eight channels in a bank to make up a scale. I took the c flute sound, created a rhythm, then went into the melody maker and created a full melody. This means that I have an entire flute melody designated to one of the eight channels. So when actually constructing a song, it lets you use up to 4 sequences. Each sequence can use up to 8 channels, so you realistically have as much control and complexity as you could ever need. I personally like the bank setup, as it allows me to think in terms of what goes together in my head; a method of thought that I prefer. It would be nice if it just gave you the list and let you go wild, but that's abt the only real downside and, depending on how you use it, not really that big of a concern. Certainly, the difference between a top quality, almost entirely functional, product for free and something with a little bit more a commercial bent that costs 40 bucks is going to be the major deciding factor. Basically, what I'm saying is that it's something worth checking out that can legitimately be used extremely creatively after a small amount of time getting used to the bank system.

Rhythm fanatic Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 590

as I see, we all fell in love with traxxcrap..
I'm busy with hotpxl minigames atm.. Very Happy

after that I'll try to compile my brand new killer song in Rhythm..
Alphonse said, the music is a little better in Traxxpad, well.. we'll see.. Wink

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

Man, how can you have as much complexity you could ever want with only 4 sequences per song? I also understand that The number of steps per sequence is pre-set. Alright, for me that song would last for maximum 30 seconds, or else be as repetative and boring + in lack of drum-variations and melodies as the example songs.

Being able to build your own instrument set from scratch should not be considered a bonus, it should a composers right.

I am not judging your music/talent, but I can certainly say that your attitude is killing progressive music Very Happy

I haven´t yet been on it for a day, and the interface audio has become quite disturbing. Whenever I do music I want to focus on the universe I am creating and not be disturbed by cultural references that I haven´t chosen.

Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 9

Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 5

I'm going to simply say that my point is that it's possible to create music similar to what I've seen here. Again, not that traxxpad is better, but that it works well and is a product that can be used to create original music. It's more an issue of how to use the interface, rather than what can be created. I'm not hatin' on rhythm but saying that traxxpad does work well. rhythm is a great program that is easier to use for certain things. I've already said as much; I just don't like seeing something that can work well for a lot of people be completely torn apart. It works and will work well for a lot of people. I'm merely commenting on this fact and nothing else. I like a lot of what I see here and look forward to learning more thanks to this site, but hate to see something that can be a creative tool condemned without pointing out the potential positives. It works, just differently from what people here are used to. Rhythm is a great program, by the way, and I like it as well.

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

Thanks for the input Crossfire. Just so I understand, you can create a melody using a bank of samples. Then in the song sequencer you have 4 melodies to play with. From when I looked at the manual it looks like you could have 4 patterns (melodies) each with 8 sounds playable in song mode. Can you make any changes to the melodies per sound while making a song or is a melody or pattern fixed once you start working on a song. I think it is but I'm not sure which makes me think that Traxxpad actuallt pre-renders the melodies so in reality you can only sequence 4 patterns in song mode. Does that sound about right?

Rhythm fanatic Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 590

hey guys, don't say we hate it, this piece is for creating rap and hip-hip base tunes, we just don't like that it's pretty much limited to these styles..
for rap and hip-hop, this app is excellent..
and the quality.. it depends on what samples do you use..
in Rhythm you get CD quality, since 44khz sound goes in, and comes out on export.. the feel of it, that you hear reverb, delays, ambient, it all depends on what samples do you have..
in Traxxpad you get lot of well mastered sounds, those match together, but in Rhythm you have to fight with several samples those came from many parts of your hard drive.. Smile

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

Yeah, the basses are fat in Traxxpad. As Isti says, that can be achieved in PSP Rhythm by mastering your sounds in a proffesional studio. However, the playback engine (or samples?) suffer from much uncontrolled clicks and pops, which is a great drawback.

I haven´t tried renderering it because I haven´t made anything I am happy with yet, maybe it sounds better then, any info on that, Crossfire?

I don´t hate this proggy, I really wish it was better. I like that you can hear the tones in the melody editor without having to play the pattern, + the moving pattern screen, sample editor, etc. Those things can inspirate PSP Rhythm to be even more better (it already IS fully functional).

If you are able to remix this tune, then I will better understand what you mean. Because right now I believe it is too complex for Traxxpad. I have made these samples myself, so I am sure you will find more juicy samples within Traxxpad: http://www.electricdungeon.org/NL%20media/NexLife22-Sketsj.zip

All the best, and remember: hate is the path to the dark side of the force Twisted Evil

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

About sound quality, the audio output is exactly the same on both apps, 44100hz 16bit. They probably do have a high quality sample set and those sample are probably tuned for the PSP speakers/headphones and that is why they sound so good. Most of the samples Billy makes for Rhythm are pretty raw.

Does Traxxpad require a higher firmware? My PSP's are still running 1.5. If I can run it then I might pick it up to check out.

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

Does anyone know what type of parameters you can modify for the sample playback? Does it have an envelope or filter? What about effects?

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

I am sitting on Traxxpad right now, while I really should be finishing up songs in Renoise Smile

The parameters I can see is are volume, balance, pitch, bnor(?), sustain. Can´t see any effects, but I guess they should be here somewhere...

It renders only MP3, not WAV! And it requires FW 3.11.

I found the function to extend patternlength to 8 bars (which is pretty much), so at least one can make really long riffs. Problem is, you can´t choose where in the patter/sequence/riff to start when compiling song in STACK mode. If you want to add something to a sequence of 8 bars, you will need to memorize it first in order to have the desired controll, because once you start making a new sequence for your song the last one becomes inactive. You can hear them both in STACK mode
but then you cannot modify the sequences. It can be painful to memorize if the song isn´t finished, and you possibly want to change it afterwards.

Anyway, I am throwing in the towel now after spending a whole day making 47 seconds of not too great gangsta hip-hop Smile

Guess I´ll have to compensate a little with Renoise and fuzzguitar!

Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 5

It's somewhat limited in terms of effects. Reverb and whatnot aren't really an adjustable aspect of the sounds. You can definitely adjust the sounds, tweak a few things, but not really the classic effects. Oh, it does use a higher firmware. I think it's 3.11 or something.

Rcon, I think I see what you're asking. In a sense, once you create a sequence, you basically place sequences to create a song. And you have 4 sequences to a song. while you're constructing a song, you can't immediately change part of a sequence, but you can adj individual track balances, volumes, etc. and you can also just jump back to the sequence tool and change something. as much as it's dropping sequences, you can make some fairly long sequences. But yeah, in reality you're using four sequences. The instruction manual really isn't the greatest. It pretty much explains how to use the tools, but doesn't go into any real depth.

Hai. very nice track. much love on that. Personally, I'm not quite sure I'm good enough to make something like that quite yet, just not enough experience, but just pulling apart sounds and listening to how things overlap and change, I think it might be possible in traxxpad. Without all of the instrumentation and notes I couldn't say for sure one way or the other, though. I just don't know if it'd be possible or not. On aspect that would make it feasible, though, is the ability to create an entire melody. Take some of your riffs based on a single instrument. It's actually possible to make one of those so it's purely assigned to one button press in a sequence. Something I'm working on, which is a little more structured, has a scattered beat with a trombone harmony running over it. Another has a solid, syncopated rhythm with a flute melody on top of it. The melody stays the same, but depending on how the two sequences interact, the rhythms sound different and so do the harmony and melody. Listening to your work, that aspect is what makes me think it possible. I can see ways where this system is limited, certainly. I can't break up the two rhythms, have the harmony and melody separate, and use the other sequence I have in here. Comes out to one too many. Of course, I could easily create another flute melody with a slightly altered beat to use in different places. or any of a few other tricks. Just a few things I've been looking into.?

Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 6

I also have a copy of Traxxpad too which I have briefly tested.
My observations so far:
- Visually looks very pleasing, attractive for younger people !
- Definately orientated to producing Rap/drum n bass/hip hop music (sorry, not my style !) Will have to create some of my own dance/trance sample banks & kits.
- Awkward to change any sample sound in a track - have to go through many menus to do this. Rhythm is much easier for this.
- Basically an 8 track sequencer for each pattern.
- Does not appear to have any effects to add to tracks - not good !
- There is no envelope or filter adjustments either.

Overall is not too bad, but Rhythm is still much better in a lot of ways, & is more of a serious composing tool.

Really look forward to Rhythm 8, which will completely blow away Traxxpad I'm sure !

Cheers, Chris.

user Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 38

Wow, Crossfire is obviously a member of traxxpads marketing team and is trying to pretend he is an innocent random fan off the app.... Thats pretty much just advertising... anyway,,, i tried traxxpad out and it is crap... it has some cool features like real time recording but other than thats its frustratingly cumbersome when dealing with loading samples..... No disrespect to the producers of traxxpad, I think its kinda cool that sony released a beat making game... but I think the free Rhythm tops traxxpad any day...

user Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 38

And one more thing, I don't even think that you can use your own custom samples in it which is the most essential part for me at least...

Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 5

wow. I didn't say it was a perfect program. In fact, I specifically said that it is limited in places and that the samples should be accessible through something other than the edit bank option. I also said I've tried psprhythm and like it as well. I think they're both oriented toward slightly different things and minor limitations aside, it's not a bad program. I saw a post abt it on here and decided to get into the discussion. I've been reading info here because there's good stuff here that's useful no matter what you use.

Oh, you can record your own samples to use. It even says it on the back of the box. Don't attack someone without paying attention. Now I'm done and I'm not saying another word on the subject.

Champion Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 205

user Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 13

I found RhythmPSP before Traxxpad PS. i find both interesting Very Happy

. enjoyed Rhythm more have made loads of short beats & had more time to play around with about 2 weeks, some real good features a lot of potential to be even more unique! still not giving up making a song. printed the guide just have to read it now? Traxxpad PS amount of time spend 3+ hours i hate the animations one target audience driven big downside? ability to switch half off why! Can live with the main interface effect work well. Wish there was a written guide so I can actually doing something bashing while reading would help! Mission give Traxxpad more time ignore the haters plus wait to see what new in Rhythm 8!

user Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 38

lol, sorry for the subtle hostility crossfire... anyways, its cool that you are commenting on the pros and cons of both apps.... I almost feel like I need to defend rhythm from any critisim....loool....anywyas, what I was saying was that traxxpad cannot use directory based samples... I.E. you cannot put a sample from your computer on you r mem stick and make a "samples" folder ( to the best of mt knowlege), you can only record samples thru the psp microphone... I think that is the major detrement to traxxpad because it limits your sound and creativity.... Although on the positive side, I like the idea of being able to se a mic to record samples directly.....

Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 5

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was looking at. There seems to be good and bad with both programs. At any rate, I personally wish rhythm were a little more updated with the more current firmware versions, or maybe I just haven't figured it all out yet for installing it properly. I have actual games that require higher firmware that I can't seem to run this on, which makes it a bit tricky. Hell, if I could use both, it'd make things really interesting...

Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 643

Rhythm runs on firmwares 1.0, 1.5 plus all the way to 2.8 with the help of the eLoader and on the newer custom firmwares without a problem (3.40 OE).

I just got a chance to check out Traxxpad but I must say the interface is not easy to work with!

One strange thing it did was create USB mic device on my computer which actually sent audio from the PSP to audacity but at a very low volume!

I think these two reviews are the most honest:
http://psillustrated.com/gamevortex/soft_rev.php/3663
http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=45461